Messages in ICG #boardofdirectors (Slack) <2019-11-06 2019-11-08>
kevin.p.roche 9:48 AM
Chiming in as an observer with non-profit experience regarding CoC's, insurance and access issues:
kevin.p.roche 9:52 AM
Argh. Hit the wrong button. This is for everyone in the conversation:
1. This sudden spate of new business feels rushed and panicked. Please take
careful consideration of what is prompting your urge to "take some sort of
action NOW"
2. hand in hand with that, do the same thing when a comment provokes
a strong reaction from you. Slack is not quite as flamewar-prone
as Twitter, but its immediacy has the same amplification problems that Twitter
does.
3. If you have a lawyer write your CoC, and other
policies, it will only make corporate lawyers happy. It is better to develop
one internally and then have it reviewed by counsel.
[5 replies Last reply 2019-11-10 8:43 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
There is nothing rushed or panicked about something I have been talking about
for a couple of weeks publicly and working towards privately for the last two
months.
However, you are more than welcome to believe
what you want.
There are definitely those who want to try to
use our selected voting platform and what should be our main source of
communication in to a place where misconduct happens with alarming speed. Which
is why, when witnessing these matters and reviewing the bylaws and standing
rules, I began to research what we needed to help prevent these problems in the
future. I would have thought I was not alone in this, but after waiting for
anyone else to step up, I took it upon myself to make the motion for things
that should have been done long ago.
I also know that there are just some things you
hire a professional to do, especially if it needs to be expedited and thus I
suggest hiring a lawyer. There is honestly nothing to fear from lawyers and
fanning the flames of distrust of an entire professional field is not something
I plan to take part in. I am not a lawyer and I am more than happy to hire one
when the time is appropriate, just like with any other profession. In
the case of a corporation that is trying to be international, its best to seek
guidance and help from those far more well versed in these matters.
International laws get complicated fast and we’ve already seen confusion with
wanting to write in “ADA” for the American with Disabilities Act which, while
nice, has zero legal bearing outside of the USA.
kevin.p.roche 2 years ago
To clarify: I wrote that it feels rushed.
Especially when we have a chunk of the audience still getting used to this
communications medium.
And I did not intend to disparage the legal profession; I wrote too succinctly.
I meant that I feel we need to develop what we want our policies to cover (our
specification) and then have counsel build from that framework.
kevin.p.roche 2 years ago
Regarding ADA... there are a few places where we may be forced to use them as
reference, since we are US based.
For instance, in the definition of service vs support animals. I have not found
an international equivalent to the ADA definitions.
kevin.p.roche 2 years ago
I have to get into my lab now, so forgive the silence that is about to ensue.
Bruce Mai 2 years ago
I'm with Kevin on his earlier pont. No
matter how much time has passed, there is still a feel of rushing. Change
with the ICG can be glacial and annoying, but it's also more comfortable to
people of varying proficiency of technology and experience with other
organizations they have belonged to. Frankly, the fact that we have
gotten to the point for demanding lawyers and Codes of Conduct because some
people can't be civil is ridiculous. I've been reading any number of
posts where people just don't seem to give a d*** about who they offend. Maybe
what we really need is a "Sergeant of Arms" (only half joking) to
remind people of the necessity for politeness.
kevin.p.roche 9:53 AM
4. Given that there is a current charge of harassment, etc. being investigated,
we will not be able to get a quote on D&O liability insurance until it is
dealt with. I know this from personal experience from Worldcon.
[9 replies Last reply 2019-11-07 11:23 AM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
While you can’t receive coverage for a current problem, generally you just
negotiate a policy with a writer excluding this case of GCFCG investigation.
It’s actually not that difficult and insurance companies include writers for
all manner of things on a regular basis. However, it baffles me that we don’t
have B&O insurance, which I assumed we had. Clearly, I assumed multiple
things about a Board I have been serving on for a number of years now that I
should have asked about at the start of my service. Trust me, I would have done
this years ago had I known.
This shouldn’t be a difficult thing to move
forward on, despite the vocal minority attempting to make it more difficult.
However, if it does not get seconded at least I will know that I tried to
correct some major discrepancies and know how I plan to proceed going forward.
kevin.p.roche 2 years ago
I agree that it is a good thing. What I discovered with Worldcon was that most
fan groups that do events don't actually know about B&O; they think about
liability in terms of injury/accident policies for individual events.
kevin.p.roche 2 years ago
It's just a blind spot.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
ICG doesn’t do events. Having basic B&O is fairly routine. This is
literally the first board I’ve served on that didn’t have insurance and I’m
baffled that we don’t have basic indemnity. But I asked a week ago about a
policy and the only person who chimed In was the acting president who said she
didn’t think we had any but asked to be corrected. After days gone by, when I
saw that people who should have known were clearly accessing Slack had not
responded, I moved forward with a motion to rectify this error. There
is no better time than the present before anything else happens to deal with
this and other matters that have been discussed publicly for a number of weeks
and privately for a few months.
I wish these things weren’t necessary, but we
don’t live in a perfect world.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Also, as I’ve made a motion and no one has stood up to offer evidence of such a
policy already being in place, I figure my assumption we are somehow lacking
this basic item is accurate. I’m just grateful that it’s never been needed
before now.
kevin.p.roche 2 years ago
As I said, for many fan-run 501(c)3 groups, it is a blind spot. SFSFC didn't
even realized it existed until Worldcon 76.
kevin.p.roche 2 years ago
gotta run
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Yeah. SFSFC is sorely aware of it now. :/ hope all that
is over now
kevin.p.roche 2 years ago
litigation is still in discovery; we've been informed we needn't bother to
apply for B&O until after the case is over.
Jacalyn
Boggs 12:59
PM
I motion for the board to create and fill the positions of Ombudsman to handle
complaints and allegations against the organization and it’s
members and Chapter Coordinator to perform customer service to chapters.
[2 replies Last reply 2019-11-21 9:01 PM]
Lorien Fletcher 2 years ago
I second this motion
Mera Rose 2 years ago
@Anne Davenport
Jacalyn
Boggs 12:59
PM
I motion for us to move all communication to our voting platform, Slack, to
simply things as two communication streams is confusing.
[1 reply Last reply 2019-11-07 2:10 PM]
Lorien Fletcher 2 years ago
I second this motion
kevin.p.roche 1:19 PM
I will point out that we are still in the middle of sorting out a
communications mess because a significant portion of the ICG missed the
transition to slack as the voting platform, and a number of them are still
struggling to get to Slack at all.
[1 reply Last reply 2019-11-07 1:24 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
The motion has been seconded and I went through the BOD Check in channel and
everyone is in there. We've been telling everyone for two months the voting
platform is now slack and part of the communication problem is the confusion
between Slack and Yahoogroups. This will
streamline things.
kevin.p.roche 1:55 PM
I will repeat my earlier comment.
This
feels forced and rushed, and will further alienate members who
are observing the board at work.
Mera Rose 2:49 PM
Motion #11-7-2019-1 motion for The ICG Board to task the finance committee to
solicit three quotes to find appropriate liability insurance for the
corporation to be in place by 1 January 2020.15 day discussion period ends
11/22/2019 at 5:48pm, 15 day voting period ends 12/7/2019 at 5:48pm.
[1 reply Last reply 2019-11-07 2:52 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Please keep all messages regarding this motion on this thread.
Mera Rose 2:50 PM
Motion #11-7-2019-2 motion for the board to create and fill the positions of
Ombudsman to handle complaints and allegations against the organization and it’s members and Chapter Coordinator to perform customer
service to chapters.15 day discussion period ends 11/22/2019 at 5:49pm, 15 day
voting period ends 12/7/2019 at 5:49pm.
[1 reply Last reply 2019-11-07 2:53 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Please keep all messages regarding this motion on this thread.
Mera Rose 2:51 PM
Motion #11-7-2019-3 motion for us to move all communication to our voting
platform, Slack, to simply things as two communication streams is confusing.15
day discussion period ends 11/22/2019 at 5:51pm, 15 day voting period ends
12/7/2019 at 5:51pm.
[2 replies Last reply 2019-11-22 1:33 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Please keep all messages regarding this motion on this thread.
Also sent to the channel
kevin.p.roche 2 years ago
OK, a point of information.
I use Slack in socially, and for both my nonprofit work and in my professional
roles at IBM.
Today I fired up the app to discover all my
workspaces except one of the IBM workspaces had vanished. It took the
better part of 30 minutes to track down all the necessary links and identities
to restore the connections.
If I were not as practiced as I am at these
things, it would have taken much longer. I see just this sort of query and
confusion all the time in the IBM help channels since IBM announced a fast
change to Slack from our previous messaging system.
This is one of the reasons I fear shifting
wholesale to Slack will cut off a significant portion of our membership
from communications.
Mera Rose 2:52 PM
Please keep all discussion in the motion threads for each of navigation.
Betsy
R. Marks 6:55
PM
On request from several members of my chapter, I submit the following motion:
"Recognizing
the need for a Code of Conduct, anti-harassment, and anti
discrimination policies, and also the need to involve the greater
membership in the legal and fiscal issues involved therein, I move that
the ICG Board direct the ICG Treasurer to solicit no fewer than three (3)
quotes (including expected retainers for the work) from lawyers licensed to
practice in the state of Maryland, to draft language applicable to an
international organization, that will then be added to our Standing Rules. The
deadline for quotes shall be December 31, 2019. All quotes for
services rendered and required retainers shall be presented to the board and
the membership for discussion on January 1st 2020 and voted on by the ICG
membership at the general meeting in Montreal, March 2020."
Betsy
R. Marks
President, SiW
ICG Board Representative
[1 reply Last reply 2019-11-07 7:01 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
There is a motion is already on the floor addressing this issue. This
motion is denied.
Betsy
R. Marks 7:14
PM
@Pierre Pettinger, would you please resolve this question as it is the second
time since I joined this Board that a motion has been summarily rejected by an
ICG president.
[3 replies Last reply 2019-11-22 7:57 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
@Pierre Pettinger - this is a motion based on an existing motion and must
be presented as a motion to amend per Roberts rules found here:https://www.afsc.noaa.gov/Education/Activities/PDFs/SBSS_Lesson6_roberts_rules_of_order.pdf
If I’m not mistaken?
Everyone have a good evening. I’m
heading to bed.
Pierre Pettinger 2 years ago
Mera is correct on this. The two motions have the
same subject. Betsy's motion can be re-worded as an amendment and would be in
order. It can be worded as simple insertion or as a motion by substitution
replacing her language for the first one.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
Thank you, Pierre. A reworded amendment will be delivered in the morning, per
instructions from the acting President.
Betsy
R. Marks 7:19
PM
I am willing to adapt my motion to an amendment on behalf of my members, but not
without the ruling on this issue first.
[1 reply Last reply 2019-11-07 7:01 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Your motion can be presented as an amendment to existing motion 11-6-2019-1 but
covers the exact same subject material as that motion already seconded and on
the floor for discussion. You are out of order to present a new
motion and should instead present your motion as an amendment proposal to the
existing motion with an appropriate second. Please visit this link:
https://www.afsc.noaa.gov/Education/Activities/PDFs/SBSS_Lesson6_roberts_rules_of_order.pdf
For additional information on Roberts Rules
pertaining to primary and first order motions and amendments.
Mera Rose 7:34 PM
As a quick side note: notifications do come to my phone, so even
when I’m sleeping or handing other business including family medical
emergencies, I do receive notifications. If I’m unable to respond
for ANY reason, I have given Vicky Assarantakul,
Sarah Richardson, and Jacalyn Boggs authority to immediately place the board on
COMMENT MODERATION per Phil Gust’s (tech committee chairman) recommendation;
ensuring that all comments, motions, etc, are held
until such time as those who would need to be present can respond. This
should ensure that all issues that could arise are handled calmly and civilly
and avoid the issues of the immediate past.
Additionally,
Phil Gust also shares that authority.
Judy
Mitchell 7:38
PM
Yes, it does cover much the same concept. But it is written in a much cleaner
manner and specifies more important information that the original does not have
(the possibility that a retainer may be needed, WHO is supposed to get the
quotes - the Treasurer, Where do we find a lawyer - one that is based in MD
where we are incorporated, not ... any international lawyer, that could be...
Timbuktu!, and it includes a better time frame that gives us a chance to
actually deal with it and present it to the membership (as I have felt very
strongly about since the beginning). Yes, we need these created, as Kevin said:
we should not rush headlong into things. While I personally don't see that a
lawyer is needed to create any of these, at least this is much cleaner written
for a vote. It should be accepted as a motion to amend. Weren't we earlier
discussing the re-wording??
[1 reply Last reply 2019-11-07 7:41 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
If it’s made and seconded as a motion to amend, then it would be appropriate. It
was made as a separate motion, and as such is out of order.
That said, I bid you good night Judy. I’m
sure others on this board can explain at this point why I have been awake for
over 48 hours (if you need that explanation) and am now placing the board on a
request to please end this debate until after 9am tomorrow morning.
Mera Rose 7:38 PM
And to all of you, I bid good night. Please sleep well and think
calmly on what you may wish to present and leave it until the morning after an
appropriate amount of rest. Nothing is so pressing that it cannot
wait for at least 8 hours.
Jacalyn
Boggs 7:50
PM
Everyone, if is 10:45 at night on the east coast. The acting president has
tried to end conversations multiple times. At this point please honor this
and do not bring anything to the board until after 9 AM Eastern. She will
not be returning to this forum the rest of the evening and I will absolutely
point of order anyone who continues to attempt to continue this.
[2 replies Last reply 2019-11-22 8:51 PM]
Elaine 2 years ago
Observation: I find this to be quite disturbing.
1) Not every member of the BoD is on the East coast
2) Not every member of the Bod has a traditional work or sleep schedule
3) Notifications can be turned off
I have on MANY occasions over the past two
months woken up to my phone wildly sounding off notifications from this board
at 6:30am, which is when my 'Do Not Disturb' ends.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
This was said because 1. It was getting late on the east coast where the
president resides 2. Because she had tried to end conversation for the night
multiple times and been ignored because 3. She had gotten little to no sleep
the night before which was well known and documented due to her daughter having
to go to the hospital by EMS transport the night before.
This was not a blanket statement for time and
all eternity. It was a statement for last night and your finding it quite
disturbing shows a severe lack of empathy for a special circumstance. She asked
me to ensure that she could get some sorely needed sleep and so I moved to do
so.
In all things, we need to remember that people
do have lives outside of this arena and respect extenuating circumstances.