Messages in ICG #boardofdirectors (Slack) <2019-10-22 2019-10-24>
Betsy
R. Marks 6:21
AM
Our Standing Rules are quite clear regarding how to deal with chapters in
arrears. Nobody wants to restrict anyone from access to the ICG, and the ICG
does not restrict individuals from participating in ANY costume
event at ANY time because that's not what we do. Please help me understand
where the idea arose that one had to be a member of the ICG to participate in
any of the activities described in the last two days. Is membership in the ICG
a requirement for any of these activities?
[24 replies Last reply 2 years ago 2019-10-24
8:48 AM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Please clarify what you’re saying here?
“Nobody wants to restrict anyone from access to
the ICG, and the ICG does not restrict individuals from participating in ANY
costume event at ANY time because that’s not what we do.”
And “Please help me understand where the idea
arose that one had to be a member of the ICG to participate in any of the
activities described in the last two days. Is membership in the ICG
a requirement for any of these activities?”
I’m not sure that I understand what you are
saying/asking?
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I’m confused too.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
I'm particularly curious about the outreach aspect of these groups in regard to
how the ICG itself would support those chapters. Do the chapters already have
by-laws that would explain the ICG's role iou n
supporting those activities. And would the kids also bring their parents into
the organization? I believe but can't research whether a child's membership
must be accompanied by an adult parent/guardian's.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
We’ve always allowed kids in the ICG
Mera Rose 2 years ago
The bylaws will be voted on at the first meetings and yes, each child is part
of a family membership with their parent. In the instance of future
chapters at hospitals (if such a chapter applies and is approved) any child
that does not have a parent who can apply for membership with them, the foster
parent, guardian, or attending physician who is also a member could join with
that child or add them to their household. There’s nothing that
would prevent that, and I would hope that this isn’t a discussion of preventing
memberships or chapters from joining.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
And the ICG doesn’t have to “support” the chapter any more than it already does
for other chapters. The chapter leadership would be the ones
supporting the chapter activities and members. That’s the role of
the chapter. The chapter would just be holding as many events as
TTCG already does annually, lol.
Elaine 2 years ago
I don't think there's any discussion of or intent to block(ing)
children from joining, I think it's a matter of legal status. I know in the
SCA, a child cannot attend an event without their legal parent or guardian, or
(depending on state laws) a notarized statement from such stating that the
child has permission to attend with a designated adult. There is no way for a
child to be an SCA member if they are not part of a recognized household.
So that's where my concern would lie. Not with
whether they can or cannot be included (Please, Include them! They're super
creative- see Tank's Taekwondo Robot from Charelston),
but rather, are we (the ICG) making sure that legal bases are covered for
accepting minors into the Guild.
Elaine 2 years ago
dangit, didn't want to send yet.
I think part of it is going to be at the
chapter/state level, but we need to make sure that the entire Guild is
protected. I would think that even if a hospital-based chapter were to be
approved, the legal guardian of the child would have to be a member of the
Guild, not the attending physician.
That being said, the officers of any such chapter
would ideally be staff of the childrens' ward at that
hospital (at least in my mind)
Mera Rose 2 years ago
In some cases, the legal guardian is the attending physician. I know
this is likely an area where many have no experience, so it’s hard to explain,
but there are parents who, once faced with lifetime expenses or
responsibilities of caring for a chronically or terminally ill child will walk
away and terminate their parental rights and so social services steps in and
designates the most appropriate guardian who can provide care in a hospital
setting. Sometimes it’s social workers, attending physicians, a
member of the hospital board, etc. There are also cases where a
child’s guardianship is determined by the court because of an accident that
takes the lives of the parents but leaves the child behind permanently
disabled. And also cases where children are removed from parents for
medical neglect because the parents were not able or, sometimes, were not
willing to provide care.
Many of these kids are desperate for a way to
feel connected again. Costuming provides that connection in ways I
had never imagined until I lived it.
I would think that, if the guardian joins, then
the child should be allowed to join just like any other household member.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
And yes, that is the whole idea for the leadership structure.
Elaine 2 years ago
Like I said, parent or legal guardian would have to be a member. I know there
are many reasons why a child may not be with bio family anymore. Legal
Guardianship covers a LOT of ground. I wasn't aware of medical facilities
taking guardianship, but that's neither here nor there
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
That is exactly what I am concerned about.
Elaine 2 years ago
And, would we be required to have them prove guardianship? These may be
discussions to have with an attorney or paralegal, and I would think it would
differ from state to state.
I can honestly say: I had NEVER thought about
the idea of a child-oriented chapter, especially one at a hospital!
Elaine 2 years ago
/happy face emoji/
Mera Rose 2 years ago
We live in hospitals. My husband and I served & lived in close
proximity to nuclear material in the Navy and it did damage to the genome that
passed to our children. Between them they carry over 120 diagnoses
including Cri du Chat syndrome, auto immune disorders, epilepsy, cerebral
palsy, Trisomy 17, Trisomy 14, genetic blindness, muscle disorders, dystonia,
and more than 1 life limiting condition. My oldest will be 17 in
December, then I have 15, 13, and 9 year olds, and my
youngest is 5.
I joined the ICG to give them somewhere to
continue in the costuming community... build more networks and
friends. They haven’t gotten that chance with SiWeb,
and I doubt they will. These 3 chapters are extensions of the
friends they have here with unlimited potential to expand to other kids and
give them the same opportunities. Not to mention the good it does us
parents and those awesome Costumers and friends that support what we’re trying
to do - we need social outlets, and costuming is our passion too.
That’s why I got my degrees in human services
and psychology - to help kids like mine and their families.
This will do a lot of good. But I
don’t think ICG is the place for it after all. These kids need
positivity and hope. That’s what I wanted to do... organize
groups to help that happen. And I still can, just not here
apparently.
There will be a formal statement forthcoming
from each chapter, myself, and my family including each of the children. For
those from me and my family, they’ll be video. If I can’t share them
here then I invite you to join my Facebook profile as I’ll share them there.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
No physician would just be like “oh yeah I will claim to be this thing”. None.
Physicians that have guardianship take it very seriously.
Elaine 2 years ago
When was it ever said or even implied that it wasn't a serious thing?
Cailin E. Cutrell 2 years ago
Elaine made a comment about kids in the sca, not
being able to be members unless they are part of a recognized household. I
played in the sca for 14.5 yrs. To be part of the sca you don't need a membership. A child has a waiver with their
guardian and or parental unit that attends the event with them, if a membership
is obtained it's a family membership. I fought in the sca
for 6 yrs, and even then I didn't HAVE to have a
membership, but had to have a waiver on file for insurance purposes. I didn't
JOIN my first household till my first marriage. So households aren't indicative
of membership.
Elaine 2 years ago
Correct, Cailin. You don't have to be a member to play, just like you don't
have to be a member of the ICG to participate in a masquerade at CostumeCon, or at an event hosted by an ICG chapter, or whataveyou.
But, you couldn't attend as a minor without a
guardian present, For Pennsic, until last year, I
could not send my then-minor daughter with her grandmother, because PA laws
forbade temporary guardianship. AZ is much more lax, I just have to check him
in, or send a notarized letter with grandma so my minor son can attend Estrella
with her.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
Which was my point at the beginning. You don't have to be a member of the ICG
to participate in any of the things the chapters do. You may have to be a
chapter member, but there's no requirement for chapter members to join the ICG.
You must be a member in good standing of the ICG to vote, and at present you
must be a member in good standing and at least 13 to exercise the right to vote
on ICG business.
Cailin E. Cutrell 2 years ago
Right. So why is the mighty munchkins cosplay group or the special needs kids
group being met with opposition?
Cailin E. Cutrell 2 years ago
These kids want to expand on our, and their knowledge of costuming and crafting
of some kind. They are the future of this organization. I find it flattering
that children have the drive and passion that we in this group have about our
craft.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
And - just to point something out... everyone wanted to jump on the
notion that my 5 kids would somehow unbalance the voting inside each chapter. I
have 3 who are “of voting age” at 13+, and, as all 3 chapter presidents know
function at a younger age than 3. My children have never voted, as
Betsy and her predecessor Kevin know, and, moreover, my husband hasn’t
either... so this is again, a disingenuous statement because it
would never boil down to votes.
Unless you think that the presidents of these 3
chapters pose a threat in their future votes and are blocking them politically
using children to justify it?
Elaine 2 years ago
Wait, what???
I was discussing the legal protections
necessary to have a chapter that is minor-centric! Where did this come from??
Betsy
R. Marks 6:22
AM
Separately: Would someone please update the BOD page on the website to include
all Board Alternates and update our chapter data in particular? Elaine and I
should both be listed there.
Thank
you.
[7 replies Last reply 2 years ago 2019-10-24
12:24 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
The alternates were not listed before. I figured that was a BOD decision that
predates my time on the BOD. I will confer with the president on this and see
if Phil Gust knows why the alternates are not listed.
Merrily 2 years ago
I’m listed and Sarah is listed as the alternative as we have submitted with our
officers after each election.
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
Plus chapters do not always update their lists there is an election and there
are new officers or BoD rep. Chapters set
their own election dates but they need to remember to send the updates in a
timely fashion.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
Which is part of the reason why I asked. We should have a complete
understanding of the individuals who represent their chapters, not just those
with a vote.We should also know who else is part of
the Board, in non-voting capacity.
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
Chapter treasurers were added so they would see the reporting reminders a few
years ago.
Only a few chapters have an alternate BoD rep, there is no restriction it is just up to the
chapter. The alternates need be here so they know what is going on if one
should have to step in on short notice. They also should be able to comment on
all the discussions. Life happens when we are busy doing other
things.
Most of the committees have representation here
as many are also chapter reps who happen to wear many hats. http://costume.org/wp/about-the-international-costumers-guild/committees/It
would be nice to see who is actually on the new guidelines committee and get
them listed on the website.
Vicky Assarattanakul 2 years ago
From Yahoo:
Hi Betsy,
The Board of Directors page lists the members
of the board. including "...the individual member from each chapter of the
Corporation chosen annually by the chapter to be a Director, plus the Officers
of the Corporation." (Bylaws Art. V sect 1). The page is a corporate
document. Since there is currently no provision for Board Alternate in the ICG
corporate structure, they don't appear on the Board of Directors page.
Some chapters find it useful to have one or
more other members monitor the Board's activities so they can be ready to step
in if their appointed board member is not able to serve, and the Board has
always been open to that. But that is a practice of individual chapters, and
not something that the ICG keeps track of. One chapter member represents the
chapter for all business before the board during the period of their
appointment, "until the chapter chooses a successor" (Art V sect 4).
One suggestion would be for the chapters to
list other members who they consider "alternates" in their individual
chapter listings. Those listings belong to the chapters, and they can include
any information about the chapter that they want to.
Vicky Assarattanakul 2 years ago
(the above message was from Philip Gust)
Jeanine
Swick 10:15
AM
Not trying to muck things up on this. I would like to know why if the decision
was made 2 years ago at the annual meeting (I missed due to being unable to travel)
that it was not kept in front of the Bod and the general membership?My
guess is that if an action plan had been put in place 2 years ago after the
vote this mess would not be happening right now. As I see it no one
was assigned or volunteered to take on the responsibility for it. So
everyone who was at that meeting is at fault to some degree or another.
Judy
Mitchell 10:31
AM
Jacalyn, usually everyone is very happy to have new groups so everyone is like
yea. These are a hot mess. And with all the changes that have been made or
offered to be made the cuurent documents arent even the same. Personally i
would like to see clean copies posted before voting.
Marianne
Pease 10:44
AM
I'm not going to just edit the petitioning chapters Letters! The PDFs uploaded
here to slack are what were sent to me by the chapters. Obviously there are
more individuals interested in joining the new chapters than are listed on the
petitions but that doesn't mean that I can just change them. I'm conveying the
message that these people want to join, not writing it for them.
Judy
Mitchell 12:46
PM
Further elucidation from the person in Blue Ridge. They were approached by a
friend to join a fb group so they clicked to see what it was about. Nothing was
there, nothimg has happened there since she
"joined" so she has now left it. There was no letter of intent to
join the ICG. So that's a name down on the application.
[2 replies Last reply 2 years ago 2019-10-23
3:44 PM]
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
I can confirm that I did receive a whole bunch of screenshots proving
confirmation of wanting to be a founding member. If you'd like to privately
share the name of the person, I can confirm whether or not they agreed to join
the chapter as a founding member.
Also sent to the channel
Judy Mitchell 2 years ago
Their name is on the list, they weren't told that joing
the group meant joining ICG. They have quit the group. As the list still has 15
other names that is not an issue. However to be a votibg
member of ahh ICG chapter, one must be at least 13yrs old. I feel anyone
younger than 13 should be removed from the lists. No, i
dobt believe it will make any difference in the
number of people needed, but we should adhere to our own standing rules as
should petitioning groups. (edited)
Mera Rose 12:56 PM
Then that person is not on the application. Each person who is on
the BCRS was contacted and confirmed and those confirmations have been
forwarded to the president.
Jeanine
Swick 1:44
PM
Huge question here based on the minutes from the meeting. It states that a 10
day discussion period was voted on and passed not 5 days that got
put in the Standing Rules!
Pierre Pettinger: Explanation about new chapter application: need to make an
adjustment to standing rules.
− Long discussion among various member on bringing in new chapters to ICG.
− Bruce MacDermott: Change standing rules.
− Pierre Pettinger: Can change standing rules, make motion today.
− Mera Babineaux: Suggest
going to 5-year plan presentation part of meeting, but meeting continues
discussing change to bylaws to streamline new Chapter admission.
Mera Babineaux uses Powerpoint projection to show wording on
screen for meeting attendees and make suggested changes. (See Attachment
‘New Chapter Admission Language’ for final language discussed in meeting)
− Pierre Pettinger: Can change standing rules to make change.
− Vicki Warren: Question about changed wording.
− Pierre Pettinger: Can’t change rules but can streamline.
− Discussion among meeting attendees while changes are made to wording:
o ask for objections
o work in 10-day window
o Bruce MacDermott, Mera Babineaux, Vicki Warren, Byron Connell
suggest wording
o call for objections
o other attendees add suggestions
o propose – streamlineing
new chapter admission
− Pierre Pettinger: reviewing standing rules and wording
− Nobody likes the word ‘onboarding’.
− Pierre Pettinger: phrases motion to vote --- NEED LANGUAGE – GET MOTION
LANGUAGE FROM MERA B ???
− Bruce MacDermott: Move to vote.
− Michele Jaye Solomon: Second.
− Motion on wording passes unanimously
Marianne
Pease 2:54
PM
The notes may be ambiguous but there is a ten day window for getting new
chapters onboard. (whatever people's feelings about that term) Also, here is a
photograph taken at Costume Con of the screen where we worked out the wording
all together.
[0.jpg]
Betsy
R. Marks 3:09
PM
Thank you, Marianne. That language should be included in clear text in the
minutes of the meeting. @Anne Davenport
[5 replies Last reply 2 years ago 2019-10-29
5:59 AM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
She acknowledged receipt and intent to include in on 8/10/2019
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
I mentioned it because the changes are not on the page. If the corrections had
been made, there wouldn't have been a question about it.
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
This is the first time I am seeing what was put up on the screen . It was oh so
conveniently positioned the those at the head table could not see it nor was
the written piece passed so we could. As I said before I believe we
voted for 10 days even though it got changed afterwards.
Anne Davenport 2 years ago
This is the text that I got a few months ago from Mera
(it was too far to the left for me to see during the meeting) and is in the
current draft of the meeting minutes: ATTACHMENT : New
Chapter Admission Language: Move to add to Standing Rule
17, Section G: As an exception to the above procedure:
Upon receipt of a Letter of Petition for
Recognition from a potential new chapter, an announcement to the board will be
made requesting any objections to a vote on acceptance of the new chapter
within 5 days. If no objections are received a vote of the board of
directors will occur over the following 5 days.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
Thanks, Anne!
