Messages in ICG #boardofdirectors (Slack) <2019-10-17 2019-10-19>
Marianne
Pease 7:04
AM
We have three new Letters of Petition for recognition as chapters of the ICG.
Are there any objections to accepting these new chapters? If so, please respond
here in a threaded message.
[CosInternational
Letter of Petition.pdf]
[Blue
Ridge Costuming Society Letter of Petition.pdf]
[Old
Dominion Costumers Guild Letter of Petition.pdf]
[47 replies Last reply 2 years ago 2019-10-24
10:40 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Excellent! My grand master plan to have at least one guild chapter
in every city in Virginia is well under way! Next stop, the
world! I'm ready to support these three chapters and more!
Vicky Assarattanakul 2 years ago
From Yahoo:
Hi, all:
I'm on the road to Karen Schnaubelt's
house. I will review the submissions when I get home, late Saturday or Sunday.
Thanks,
Betsy
SiW
Merrily 2 years ago
Ozma, how many chapters are you going to be in?
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Members can be in as many chapters as they want. Some people collect them.
There’s a whole plan to some of the names that I can never keep straight. Someone
would have to do it but it’s like sick slut something... lol. It’s fun but I
really can’t keep straight how it goes.
But since you asked, I often tell people thinking
about starting that are nervous that they can throw me on their rolls so they
have someone with some experience with the guild. These chapters wanted that. I
was talking to two different groups in the Atlanta area. Sadly with
those two they decided the Bureaucracy wasn’t something they wanted to deal
with.
Please add Lorelai Keller to the list for CosInternational also.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
That makes 6 new members for CI
Mera Rose 2 years ago
More late additions to CosInternational: Brycen,
Jason, Persephone, and Lilith Pike
Mera Rose 2 years ago
10 new members for CI (Persephone and Lilith are children)
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Also please add Joram and Lana Stanley to Blue Ridge
Costuming Society
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
As a reminder, according to SR17.G, formal objections to a Letter of Petition
must be made within five days. If no formal objections are made, a vote over
the period of five days will then occur. By the rules, the vote on the three
new chapters will begin tomorrow. If a formal objection is made, we carry on
discussion for another ten days, then hold a vote over the
normal 15 day period.
I am posting this because there is a lot of
controversy over accepting the chapters but no objections to the 17G vote have
been made. Remember, 17G was designed by the BoD to
make the ICG more responsive to petitioning chapters, so they don't have to
wait for a month or more for a yes or no answer.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Technically 5 days from BoD notification was today at
10:04am, and since no formal objection was stated these chapters should be up
for vote now.
This may be a moot point however, as phone
calls and Discords with chapter leadership and members for those 3 chapters
this morning indicate that they are very upset about the allegations made by
Merrily and Judy. Remember this is a public channel so all ICG
members can see it and they talk.
This is a PR disaster waiting to
happen. I hope the vote begins soon so that they know publicly,
quickly, whether the ICG wants to include them.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
Is the message from Judy not to be considered a formal objection? What language
is necessary to make such an objection?
Thank you.
Betsy
SiW President
ICG BOD Rep
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
I would appreciate a response from the ICG President or Parliamentarian on this
question, thank you.
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
She made a statement of intent to vote no, not an objection to having the 17G
vote. The 17G vote doesn't mandate that anyone vote a particular way. I also
asked for official objections to be placed here in this thread.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Please make your formal objections on this publicly viewed
thread. Thanks.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Also - is there anything more to extending the time period for discussing when
all of those who appear to be discussing have stated their intent for their
vote? Formal objection pushing it out another 10 days just seems
silly when their minds are made up to vote no. Objection doesn’t
stop a vote, it just delays it.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
Thank you for the clarification.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
I’m voting yes. I support inclusion of any member or chapter that
wants to join the ICG.
Merrily 2 years ago
I've asked my chapter their feelings on this. The response I received:
formal objection:
Until this has been an investigation and
resolution into the allegations of gaslighting, harassment, and blackmail, then
I for one, do not feel that the IGC should push any further
motions.
If these chapters are approved with clearing
the toxic situation at the ICG, then it may leave doubts as to their purpose
and legitimacy. If concern is that these families want programing and our
support for their children, there is nothing stopping us from doing so with
what we have now while we resolved rumors and accusations.
To have these questions and possible hostility
towards these families who may be interested in joining would be more unwanted
stress for them at an already stressful time.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Wait is GCFCG thinking there would be possible hostility towards these
families? If so, perhaps there is a bigger question at hand than merely
bringing in three new chapters and multiple new members/families. That question
is who is going to be the perpetrator of such hostility because, while we do
not have a code of conduct, we should not stand for any sort of such harassment
and such an individual should be removed from the ICG. If you have
evidence that someone is guilty of hostility towards individuals who are
disabled, or some other things that these people could possibly be representing
that causes concern about hostility, please offer it.
Judy Mitchell 2 years ago
Really? In what world is a lot of controversy not an objection? I move that a
clean copy of thes petitions be provided with all tyre changes and updates discussed before they can go to
vote.
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
When we operate under procedures that ask for a formal objection. No one is trying
to somehow get one over on anyone here. I'm following our procedures as
written.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
@Judy Mitchell maybe the president can amend them with the additional
chapter member names? That’s really the only updates. Though if I take this
to the members of CI that I brought in they may just opt to rescind their
petition altogether. At this point, I’m not sure that I can blame them,
especially with a chapter claiming possible targeting of their membership.
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
GCFCG has now officially objected to their inclusion in the ICG. The discussion
period is therefore extended to the full 15 days, which will then be followed
by a full 15 day voting period.
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
Honestly, I can't blame them for not wanting to be part of the ICG now either.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
I second this motion.
Betsy R, Marks
Silicon Web Costumers' Guild
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
What motion are you seconding?
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
There's no motion
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Formal responses from each of the chapters are being written. Thank
you for going on record Merrily and Judy.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
Judy Mitchell: "I move that a clean copy of thes
petitions be provided with all tyre changes and
updates discussed before they can go to vote."
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
I believe what Judy intended to write was: "I move that a clean copy of
these petitions be provided with all the changes and updates discussed before
they can go to vote."
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
Is this not a proper motion?
Merrily 2 years ago
Just 7 days ago there was total chaos over multiple issues. in the middle of
that bickering without any resolution, these three potential chapters were
presented. This is very poor timing. Putting their request forward
at that time was a poor decision. This is why GCFCG said we would vote no.
Things and relationships need to be mended first.
I don't know what they are being told. Since
they are not on this list it is what you have decided to tell them. How that is
shaped is a leadership decision. All things considered you could have asked
them to have a meeting and elections while we worked a few policy things out.
You know a positive spin instead of whatever has been said. If you stated we
are working out some other issues, we'll get back to you, there would be no
issue. If you are telling them how things not going as you perceived they would
in this current environment, then of course they will have second thoughts.
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
No, it's not a proper motion. We didn't write the Letters of
Petition and we can't just edit them to be 'clean.' (whatever that entails?)
The Letters were sent to me as president, according to our
rules for applying chapters, by the applying chapters.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
If they want to be chapters of this organization, they should be willing to
resubmit their proposals so that all of the questions being raised about them
and their intent are clear. If they aren't willing to do that, how willing will
they be to abide by our rules?
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
Also, there's no 'spin' to put on this when our BoD
list is open for all the membership to see, copy, and paste.
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
What individuals say will have to stand for itself, quite frankly.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Marianne is correct. All that I’ve shared is that I’m sorry that
they got tied up in this manufactured BoD drama,
which of course they can see because there are other ICG members that have
shared it with them.
Judy Mitchell 2 years ago
I have gone back to my chapter with the discussions asking if they wish to
change their vote. However if see can't even see an amended copy to determine
whether offers made will actually happen I'm not sure whether we should
consider it. Lots of talk, no proof of action.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
I’m sorry ladies. The point has been raised that no matter how many
times they redraft the petitions or what they change, this will continue to be
an issue for Merrily and Judy and others who have not lodged a formal
objection. “Why bang our heads against a wall if they don’t want
us?”
What would you like me to tell
them? (edited)
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
Given the immediate objections to the three letters of proposal, and my being
on the road the bulk of the weekend and involved all day yesterday and part of
today with onboarding for a two-week billable project, I have not submitted the
proposals to my chapter at all.
Until we have a Code of Conduct in place to
deal with the behavior of the members of this group (Slack, specifically), I
will not forward further business to my chapter.
I am in the process of writing up such a code
for the Costume-Con ConStitution and I would be happy
to share the results of that document process when it is complete. I believe
the contents will be instructive.
Meanwhile, I suggest viewing the sites I am
using for adapting such a document.
They are:
https://dublin2019.com/about/code-of-conduct/
http://animeusa.org/convention-policies/
https://www.dragoncon.org/about/dragon-con-policies/andhttps://dublin2019.com/about/accessibility-services/
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
Furthermore, reading the recently amended Standing Rule 17.G (text of the
amendment NOT available in the draft minutes), I have an objection to the time
allotted for the initial discussion, especially as it pertains to mention of a
10-day window, not a five-day window. I would be happy to put the applications
before my chapter members for input, but we have been concentrating in
discussing moves to a new platform and I have been tied up with that process
rather than moving these petitions forward. A five-day delay would seem to be
appropriate, at the very least, as the minutes of the Annual Meeting are
ambiguous.
Mera will attest, as one of
the SiW's members, that I have not published these
petitions at all, an error I intend to rectify as soon as I finish typing this
comment.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I’ve been working today. Whenever I am less busy I’m going to talk to my
contacts with CI. I’m pretty sure they may have the same query: why redraft
anything? If there’s going to be continued contention and animosity, I’m not
sure any of them are going to want to continue. As Marianne said, I can’t blame
them either. This has been frustrating.
It sure seems like no matter is brought to the
board as is currently constituted, certain element/s will fight
it. None of us are getting paid enough to deal with this and it
makes no sense to me why there is so much obstruction.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
I have now posted these PDFs as a link on the SiW
group, so that my members can view the documents. I have asked them to comment
within the next five days.
Judy Mitchell 2 years ago
@Jacalyn Boggs that's not true at all. What we would be voting on are
those petituons. I raised concerns/objections to a
number of issues in them and said that my chapter works vote no as such. Now
there was a lot of discussions and some offers made which could go a long way
to ease our concerns. However at this time it's still all talk because those
petitions are still as written! Clean them up in a redraft that shows the
changes and it could change the vote.
Believe me, i would
love to see more chapters And more cosplayers involved! But a refusal to clean
them up (and really, were not talking about a 15pg tax paper here it's minor
work) instead tells me that the offered changes are not made in good faith and
my chapter can't believe they will happen. It's really not a difficult concept
or a difficult request.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
There’s been entirely too much contention the last six weeks and I’m just tired
of it. These prospective chapters don’t like what they are seeing.
My chapter doesn’t like what it’s seeing. The guidelines, Slack, everything.
Too much contention. This shouldn’t be such a miserable thing.
Think what you want about these chapters. I
have nothing more to say. I’ve begged people to have patience. I’ve begged
people to give the ICG a chance despite hearing we are elitist and hate
cosplayers. I’m tired of saying we don’t hate cosplayers.
I just want to costume and have the family I
had growing up, raising my kids, and I thought I had before September.
It is clear from the attitude that too many
aren’t wanted. I’ve been attacked and told I am a nobody and don’t have the
years of experience of others.
Why on earth am I even trying?
This. This is the point I’m
at.
I have a grandchild coming. A fourth generation
costumer. This isn’t the legacy I want her born in to.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Please except this official withdrawal of the petition of CosInternational
to become affiliated with the ICG with the following statement:
We are a small group of costumers, Cosplayers,
and minor children (with guardians) who have developmental,
genetic, and life limiting health impairments.
We have seen the objections from Judy Mitchell
and Merrily Wolf, on behalf of their chapters, and have independently decided,
on the basis of those statements, (although additional information was shared
from the Slack forum posts when requests were made and questions were asked) to
withdraw our petition for affiliation.
As our friends and fellow Cosplayers not on the
petition asked “why amend the petition and add us all, they don’t want us and
will continue to block us”, and
As our friend and constant advocate Mera, will no longer be an ICG member or BoD rep to help raise our voices and protect our interests
in the ICG; and
As our president and Vice President, Mera and Jacalyn have been treated poorly and accused of
things completely against their character known to us, evidence by screenshots
of emails and Slack communications sent by the ICG BoD
members that they considered their equals and who have accused Mera, Marianne, and Jacalyn, (who we trust to help protect
our interests if we were to join the ICG), of malice and falsification of
information regarding this petition without providing any documentation to
verify their claim against our chapter; and
As the trust we would have given the ICG has
been broken irrevocably;
We, the prospective members of the ICG, do
hereby revoke our petition to be affiliated with the ICG for now, and in
perpetuity.
The Mini Mighty Munchkin Cosplayers, CosInternational, and their allies, family, friends,
guardians, and appointed next friends will henceforth, now and forever, not
ever be associated with the International Costumers’ Guild.
Lorien Fletcher 2:05
PM
I can't review until Monday! Happy to see new chapters!
Byron Connell 4:36 PM
It appears that each of the groups has at least six unique members and so has
enough to meet the minimum and the provision that members designate one chapter
as the primary chapter. I have no objections to the applications and will vote
in favor of them.
[1 reply Last reply 12019-10-18 9:40 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
The 27 new members in those 3 chapters will appreciate that, especially Blue
Ridge! The sick pups and S.L.U.T.S have some fans there so they
chose to own the Roanoke Valley’s nickname to pay homage to the legacy they
want to join (Roanoke was called Big Lick in the beginning as it was a salt
lick) and go with “The Big Lickers” as their aka!
Merrily 5:15 PM
I've discussed this with the GCFCG oficers
GCFCG will not be endorsing these chapters until the dispute over the
guidelines and 5 year plan is settled.
[2 replies Last reply 22019-10-18 6:24
PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
You want to wait months? Also there’s no dispute about the guidelines. They are
in committee, which is doing the work that they are supposed to do.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Just curious since the committee is going to take a couple of months and all.